Recruiting: The Hiring Process Involves a Lot of Coaching

The WorkPuzzle production has several sets of eyes on it.  While it’s been awhile since I last contributed, I am still involved in the editing process.  Ben’s last blog, “Recruiting:  Questions You Shouldn’t Answer During Interviews”  brought me out of my self-imposed blog writing retirement.

While Ben and Dave discuss effective interviewing often and very well, I have found myself a bit fixated on the critical importance of the post-interview follow-up part of the hiring process.  We make a good team because you simply cannot have one without the other.

If you get only one thing out of all we have collectively written about recruiting, it should be this: The recruiting process does not end after the interview.​

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Unfortunately, I have seen and heard managers say (too frequently), “I had a great interview and the candidate will call me after he/she tests.”

That is like fingernails on a chalkboard for someone like me.

A lot of work and attention goes into getting a quality candidate to come in and spend time with you. It just cannot end there.   More often than not, you will either lose that potential talent to a competitor (either a direct competitor or to a traditional job in another industry), or they will get disenchanted and drop the process because they are not connected to anything…or more importantly, to anyone.

What struck me in Ben’s last blog was his last paragraph:

“Bottom line:  Great hiring managers know that successful interviews happen when the candidate does most of the talking.  Getting an individual to express their unique pain and seeing how working as an agent will solve his/her problem is what causes people to engage.  Long-winded answers to common questions will wreck your interviews.”

While this statement is very true, long-winded answers also prevent you from authentically knowing the person in front of you on a deeper level.  In turn, you then lack the most important ingredient for effective post-interview follow-up—a relationship with the candidate.

When you have knowledge about what is driving individual candidates and understand their potential roadblocks (points of pain), you can proactively work with them in developing their transition strategy.

You can also refer back to the information gleaned in this interview as you continue developing the relationship and keep them on the path to reach the final goal.

Many of you have heard me say, “If you want to hire someone who intends to take the next step in the hiring process, treat them like they are already hired.”  Doing this means you’re crossing over from the realm of recruiting to the realm of coaching right after the interview.

To the real estate managers who love to coach agents (and I think most of you are in that group), this is good news.


Lee picLee Gray is the Senior Account Manager at Tidemark Inc. Lee is a guest contributor to
WorkPuzzle.

Recruiting: Questions You Shouldn’t Answer During Interviews

In WorkPuzzle, we often discuss what should be done during an interview.  Today, we’re going to consider what shouldn’t happen.

More specifically, there are some questions you generally shouldn’t answer during the first interview with a new-to real estate candidate.

For example, here are a few common questions that should not be answered during a first interview:

How much money does a real estate agent make in your company?

How does a real estate agent get paid?

How does  “full-commission” differ from a salary or hourly wage?

Don’t get me wrong.  These are all legitimate questions that need to be addressed.  They just don’t need to be answered by you—especially during the first interview.

Why?  Because these questions are so common an experienced interviewer can easily anticipate them.  In turn, answers can be prepared (in written form) and handed to the candidate when the question is asked.

Point2, a real estate industry marketing firm, recently developed a great info graphic that answers all three of these questions in a colorful and interesting manner:

 How-Much-Do-Agents-Make

Doing something this complex and aesthetically pleasing may be something your company has the capacity to develop and maintain.  If so, that’s great.  It’s a worthy investment of your time and resources to answer the common questions that candidates ponder.

If you don’t have this capacity—don’t worry about it.   It’s perfectly acceptable to give a candidate a white sheet of paper with a common question at the top and some bullet points and thoughtful narrative answering the question.

Answering the same common questions interview after interview is not the best use of your time.  This is especially true if the answer requires you to take 15 minutes on a white board mapping out how commission splits work!

Here’s a better way.

Candidate: “How does full commission pay work, anyway?”

Hiring Manager:  “That’s a great question.  It’s certainly important you know how you’re going to make money in this business!  I’ve prepared a little write-up on this topic.  Spend some time reading through this after we’re done here today, and let me know if you have any questions.   Now, back to what you mentioned about your desire to get back in the workforce after being away for a while.  What’s driving you to consider this now?…”

Bottom line:  Great hiring managers know that successful interviews happen when the candidate does most of the talking.  Getting an individual to express their unique pain and seeing how working as an agent will solve his/her problem is what causes people to engage.  Long-winded answers to common questions will wreck your interviews.


BenHessPic2011This article was written by Ben Hess. Ben is the Founding Partner and Managing Director of Tidemark, Inc. and a regular contributor to WorkPuzzle. 

Coaching: Two Simple Things Every Agent Should Be Doing to Maximize Productivity

Last week, we discussed the complex topic of seeing schedules and tasks from a system perspective.  The world is filled with unintended consequences.  Keeping those consequences from hindering productivity will always be a challenge.

Today, we’ll keep things a little simpler.  If you coach your agents to adopt these two habits, you’ll not only be helping them perform better, but also live healthier lives.

Habit #1:  Walking.  Dorene Internicola of Reuters recently summarized the latest research on the benefits of walking compared to other forms of exercise.

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Walking is a biological imperative like eating. There are movement nutrients, just like dietary nutrients, that the body needs.    In essence, walking is a “superfood.”  It’s the defining movement of a human, and it’s a lot easier to get movement than it is to get exercise.

…Too many people believe that spending grueling hours at the gym is the only way to fitness.  There’s this Biggest Loser idea out there that if you’re not throwing up and crying you’re not getting fit. 

Internicola suggests a better alternative is to intermix several short walks during the day with the required “sitting” we do to perform our sedentary jobs.

Researchers say emerging evidence suggests the combination of physical activity and inactivity (ie. the ratio of one activity to the other) may be more important for chronic disease risk than a measure of physical activity alone.

How much walking is necessary?  Researchers suggest at least 150 minutes/week. This rate amounts to three 10-minute walks per day spaced out between times of sitting and other inactivity.

Habit #2:  Drinking Coffee.  The ubiquitous networking mantra of…”let’s grab a coffee sometime” is a well-known technique for generating new business opportunities.

But, it’s also a great way to improve your health.

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Turning those you coach into coffee drinkers may be one of best coaching recommendations you can offer.

Authority Nutrition, Kris Gunnars’ wildly popular blog, makes a compelling case for the physiological and psychological benefits of drinking coffee. It’s a very long article that has more than 60 research citations.  Here is a quick summary of the benefits researchers have documented:

Coffee Can Improve Energy Levels and Make You Smarter

Coffee Can Help You Burn Fat

The Caffeine Can Drastically Improve Physical Performance

There Are Essential Nutrients in Coffee

Coffee May Lower Your Risk of Type II Diabetes

Coffee May Protect You From Alzheimer’s Disease and Dementia

Caffeine May Lower The Risk of Parkinson’s

Coffee Appears to Have Protective Effects on The Liver

Coffee Can Fight Depression and Make You Happier

Coffee Drinkers Have a Lower Risk of Some Types of Cancer (Liver and colorectal cancer particularly)

Coffee Does Not Cause Heart Disease and May Lower The Risk of Stroke

Coffee May Help You Live Longer

Coffee is The Biggest Source of Antioxidants in The Western Diet

Of course, there are a few noteworthy downsides to coffee as well.  For some people, it may have some negative effects such as causing anxiety and disrupting sleep, but this depends greatly on the individual.

Also, don’t even think about putting milk, chemical-laden creamer, or sugar in your coffee if you want the health benefits.  The health benefits are from black coffee.

Finally, how much is enough (or how much is too much) coffee?  Of course the optimal amount varies by the research study, but the most common beneficial amount seems to be four to five cups per day.

Here’s the optimal agent workday:  Schedule four to five networking meetings per day.  Drink one cup of black coffee at each networking meeting.  Take a 10-minute walk between each of the meetings.

If the agents you coach follow this routine, you’ll probably have the most healthy, productive, and wired team in your market!


BenHessPic2011This article was written by Ben Hess. Ben is the Founding Partner and Managing Director of Tidemark, Inc. and a regular contributor to WorkPuzzle. 

Coaching: How Chaos Theory Kills Productivity

Every good coach focuses on productivity.  Isn’t that what coaching is?  Helping individuals reach their maximum potential through increased productivity is the natural objective of most coaching relationships.

But, there’s a problem with this goal.  It ignores the impact of chaos theory on the world around us.  As a result, we may be helping those we coach be more unproductive by encouraging them to maximize their productivity!

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I learned about this concept from a new book I’m reading.  It’s called What’s Best Next, and it was written by Matthew Perman*.  Like many books on time management and productivity, Perman offers his take on how an individual’s personal output can be optimized.

A business owner in my network who leads a very successful shipping/logistics company recommended the book (I would love to see our company operate as efficiently as his does).   But, it has peaked my attention because it addresses many of the issues I find frustrating about the very popular Getting Things Done (GTD) time management system.

Over the next few weeks, I’ll occasionally share a few insights I’ve received from Perman’s work.  If any of these issues peak your interest, pick up a copy of the book for yourself—there is much to learn that I couldn’t possibly cover in WorkPuzzle.

Today we’ll discuss chaos theory and the impact it has on productivity.   Here is an excerpt from Perman’s book:

Researchers have found that whenever most systems—such as airports, freeways, and other such things—exceed about 90 percent of capacity, efficiency drops massively. 

Not just slightly, but massively.

This is called the “ringing effect.”  The reason is that as a system nears its capacity, the effect of relatively small disturbances is magnified exponentially.

This is why traffic slows down at rush hour almost inexplicably.  When you think about it, unless there is an accident, there’s almost no reason that traffic should be going slow.  And, here’s the thing:  you’re right.

Or, in other words, there is a reason, but it’s not what you’d expect.  The reason traffic is slow is because of the relatively small and otherwise insignificant braking that some guy four miles ahead did—and the person a quarter mile behind him, and half a mile behind him. 

It’s not that they are slamming on their brakes; under ordinary circumstances, what they are doing would have almost no effect on the flow of traffic.  The problem is that once capacity is past about 90 percent, small disturbances have a huge effect.  And so traffic slows down to a crawl.

That’s the ringing effect.

Since time management systems (some combination of task lists, calendaring, and project management) are by nature systems, they are too susceptible to the ringing effect.

It seems right to plan and schedule as much good work into your day as possible and then hold yourself accountable to great execution.   Isn’t this what you try to do?   Isn’t this what you coach your agents to do?

Personal confession here:  I’ve been trying to do this for years and it’s very frustrating. It seems I’m less productive then I should be, and I’m pretty good at planning and execution!

What’s wrong?  I pack my schedule and task list full and then small, unexpected events come along and push me into chaos.   I’m living out the ringing effect.

How can this be fixed?

This is a complex question (that’s why someone wrote a whole book on it), but Perman made two suggestions I found particularly helpful:

Only schedule/plan tasks to 75% capacity.   This is backwards to how I think, but planning less may result in accomplishing more.  This acknowledges the reality that unexpected events happen, and they’ll impact even the best plans.   For sure, this will help use accomplish more of the right things because at least those items will be on our schedules.

See your schedule as a time allotment of your roles.  Each of us has roles we consider important in our lives—both personal and professional (ex. recruiter, coach, spouse, parent, etc.).  Most people have 7 to 10 important roles in their lives.

If your schedule becomes a description of these roles, we can divide our week into time zones each representing the important responsibilities in our lives.

For example, if coaching agents is one of your roles you might want to create Tuesday and Thursday afternoons from 1pm to 4pm as your coaching time zone for this role. Focus all of your coaching activities and tasks into this time zone (don’t pack it too full) and focus on other tasks during other time zones.

These are two time management best practices that you can personally start implementing right away.   Also, coach your agents to approach their schedules in this manner—you might find everyone in your office is a lot more productive.

*Note:  Be advised that Perman’s book is written from a Christian worldview.  His approach of addressing productivity may not be for everyone and may even be offensive to some people.  If you’re sensitive to this issue, don’t buy the book.  If you still want to learn about this topic but want to skip all the “philosophy stuff,” start reading at Part 4 of his book (page 189 and beyond) and skip Part 7 (stop reading at page 295).  The 100 pages between these marks are very tactical with little philosophy mixed in.


BenHessPic2011This article was written by Ben Hess. Ben is the Founding Partner and Managing Director of Tidemark, Inc. and a regular contributor to WorkPuzzle. 

 

The Waldorf Schools and Real Estate

“’Engagement is about human contact, the contact with the teacher, the contact with their peers,’ said Pierre Laurent, 50, who works at a high-tech start-up and formerly worked at Intel and Microsoft. He has three children in Waldorf schools, which so impressed the family that his wife, Monica, joined one as a teacher in 2006.”

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The above quote came from an article about the Waldorf schools. The Waldorf model is a learning method that rejects the notion of exposing kids to technology as a primary model for education.

I read this article shortly after Ben’s blog challenging us to consider alternatives to relying too much on technology in preparing for the future. It provides a powerful reminder from the savviest technology leaders of our time, of how we might have been oversold on the uses of technology.

“The chief technology officer of eBay sends his children to a nine-classroom school here. So do employees of Silicon Valley giants like Google, Apple, Yahoo and Hewlett-Packard.

But the school’s chief teaching tools are anything but high-tech: pens and paper, knitting needles and, occasionally, mud. Not a computer to be found. No screens at all. They are not allowed in the classroom, and the school even frowns on their use at home.”

Wow! Really! I was pleasantly shocked and frankly relieved! As grandparents, my wife and I have decided to establish a screen free environment when our grandson visits our home…. And I must say this article confirmed my confidence in that decision.

“Schools nationwide have rushed to supply their classrooms with computers, and many policy makers say it is foolish to do otherwise. But the contrarian point of view can be found at the epicenter of the tech economy, where some parents and educators have a message: computers and schools don’t mix.

This is the Waldorf School of the Peninsula, one of around 160 Waldorf schools in the country that subscribe to a teaching philosophy focused on physical activity and learning through creative, hands-on tasks. Those who endorse this approach say computers inhibit creative thinking, movement, human interaction and attention spans.

The Waldorf method is nearly a century old, but its foothold here among the digerati puts into sharp relief an intensifying debate about the role of computers in education.

‘I fundamentally reject the notion you need technology aids in grammar school,’ said Alan Eagle, 50, whose daughter, Andie, is one of the 196 children at the Waldorf elementary school; his son William, 13, is at the nearby middle school. ‘The idea that an app on an iPad can better teach my kids to read or do arithmetic, that’s ridiculous.’

Mr. Eagle knows a bit about technology. He holds a computer science degree from Dartmouth and works in executive communications at Google, where he has written speeches for the chairman, Eric E. Schmidt. He uses an iPad and a smartphone. But he says his daughter, a fifth grader, ‘doesn’t know how to use Google,’ and his son is just learning. (Starting in eighth grade, the school endorses the limited use of gadgets.)”

Revelations, such as this, from the epicenter of leadership in technology reassures us that the need for human interaction will always be required.  In addition, it provides reasons to believe that these may be early signs of a more pervasive revolt against a reliance on technology.

As a practicing Clinical Psychologist, I remember being afraid of “the new cure for depression and anxiety” in the late 80’s with the advent of Prozac and similar medications. I recall asking a trusted mentor, naively, if the future of Psychotherapy was dead. He laughed and said “People will always look for shortcuts, but always return for human interaction.”

Could his words be appropriate for you and your industry? I think so.

Are the technology founded Real Estate competitors going to disappear? Of course not.  Prozac is still around, but has not replaced psychotherapy.

This article and my mentor’s words address the most fundamental anchor to hold your primary value proposition as the core for your company’s future: Human interaction without the dependence on technology will always be needed.

For those of you who want additional thoughts about kids and technology read below:

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Steve Jobs: a Low-Tech Parent

“Apple’s former CEO Steve Jobs was a ‘low tech parent’ who restricted his children’s access to electronic devices.”

A recent New York Times article summarized by the Telegraph had the following to say about the view Jobs and other high tech leaders took when it came to allowing their children to use technology:

Bilton reveals that Jobs, who died in 2011, was a self-confessed “low-tech parent.” When Bilton asked Jobs, in 2010, whether his own kids loved Apple’s iPad, Jobs replied: “They haven’t used it. We limit how much technology our kids use at home.”

Bilton reveals that, since his surprising conversation with Jobs, he has had similar discussions with other high-profile figures in the tech industry.

Chris Anderson, a former editor of Wired, told Bilton that he set strict time limits and parental controls on every device at home. “My kids accuse me and my wife of being fascists,” he said. “They say that none of their friends have the same rules. That’s because we have seen the dangers of technology first hand. I’ve seen it in myself; I don’t want to see that happen to my kids.”

It seems that Jobs, Anderson and others who extol the virtues of electronic devices, who help convince us that such things are essential parts of our daily lives, had serious concerns over the long-term effects of children engaging with touchscreen technology for lengthy periods.

Researchers at the University of California Los Angeles recently published a study which concluded that removing gadgets from children for just a few days immediately improves their social skills

So before we all get too carried away with Apple’s latest gizmos, perhaps we should all take our cue from Jobs. According to Walter Isaacson, who spent a lot of time at Jobs’ house when they worked on a book together, face-to-face family interaction always came before screentime. “Every evening Steve made a point of having dinner at the big long table in their kitchen, discussing books and history and a variety of things,” Isaacson told Nick Bilton. “No one ever pulled out an iPad or computer. The kids did not seem addicted at all to devices.”


BenHessPic2011This article was written by Dr. David Mashburn. Dave is a Clinical and Consulting Psychologist, a Partner at Tidemark, Inc. and a regular contributor to WorkPuzzle. 

Recruiting: Anticipate and Be Prepared During Your Next Interview

As hiring managers, one of our goals should be to become an expert at interviewing candidates.  This is not easy, and it doesn’t come naturally to people conducting interviews.

In fact, if you think you’re a “natural” at conducting interviews, I would venture to guess this is one of your blind spots.  The skillful interviewers I’ve observed have worked at developing and honing this craft over a long period of time.  They’re humble.  They’re constantly learning.  They fight against the natural tendencies leading them astray.

We frequently discuss interviewing in WorkPuzzle because it’s a broad topic and learning to be proficient must be approached from many different angles.

Today’s angle is anticipation and preparation. 

Skillful hiring managers anticipate what’s going to happen based on clues in the conversation.   At the right time, they express thoughtful points of view prepared and practiced long before the interview.

For example, most new-to-real estate candidates struggle with the idea of giving up a traditional job (salary, benefits, perceived security, etc.) and working independently.  Starting their own businesses can seem uncomfortable, risky, and unwise.

Overcoming this mental obstacle is a prerequisite to becoming an agent.

A skillful interviewer will ask questions during the interview to uncover the emotion behind this concern and then be prepared to objectively address the issue.

For this topic, we might want to reference some of the research Forbes magazine recently compiled on why individuals choose to start businesses.  There are 16 “amazing facts” in this article.  Here are my four favorites:

Lots of People Own Small Businesses.    There are almost 28 million small businesses in the US and over 22 million are self-employed with no additional payroll or employees (most real estate agents would fit this category).

Many People Work in Small Businesses.  Over 50% of the working population (120 million individuals) works in a small business.

Over 500,000 new businesses get started each month.  By contrast, the “new jobs” added to the economy by traditional employers are typically half this number.  It may be a crazy thing to do, but a lot of people are starting businesses!

Most businesses don’t have employees.  Approximately 75% of all U.S. businesses (small or otherwise) are nonemployer businesses.  This is how most real estate agents function. Nonemployer businesses generate just under $1 trillion in revenue each year.

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Ineffective interviewers (those who are “naturals” and do interviews off the cuff) will typically make two types of mistakes:

Miss the verbal cues that illuminate the objection.  If we’re asking lots of open-ended questions and listening carefully, clues about a candidate’s unique concerns emerge.  If the interviewer is doing most of the talking, the candidate’s anxieties remain unaddressed.

Address objections from their own experience.   If we don’t anticipate common objections and prepare beforehand, we tend to address objections from our own experiences.  This is a hit-and-miss approach that rarely works out well.

For example, a candidate could express concern about the risk of starting a business and I say, “When I got out of college I went to work for a big corporation and it was miserable.  I stepped out on my own and things worked out great.”  So, what if the candidate didn’t go to college, never worked for a big corporation and has a close friend who was part of a failed start-up company?  Your own experience means nothing to this candidate.

This is just one example, but the principle applies to all the common issues and objections you hear during interviews.  Listen to the candidates’ stories.  Anticipate the common objections.  Prepare responses beforehand that are objective and thoughtful.


BenHessPic2011This article was written by Ben Hess. Ben is the Founding Partner and Managing Director of Tidemark, Inc. and a regular contributor to WorkPuzzle.